Friday, December 28, 2012

Group Queues and Solo Merc Queues?

To many, the frequency of imbalanced matches in Dust 514 at this early stage is concerning. The amount of redline matches is excessive. They see a system where poor matchmaking too often allows games that are grossly imbalanced and one sided. We've come to the conclusion that this has more to do with blending games together with casual and hardcore players than anything else. That in addition to not using a mechanic that seeks to balance teams seems to be blame for a lack of competition in these instances. One of the solutions might lie in allowing newer players and those interested in solo play a separate queue from the hardcore players itching to test out larger groups and team play. Some would argue that this is what Corp Battles are for. Unfortunately though, no one actually uses corp battles. We've sent 'reporters' out to observe no less than twenty corp matches and exactly one was coordinated well and started on time. The global nature of the playerbase and real life commitments still make online scheduling more of a crap shoot than anything else.

At the same time, its important that newer and solo players have the option to avoid playing against large numbers of experienced players and corps interested in large-scale carnage. This post from Kellyn Whiteheart of Zion TCD got us to thinking of a way to please everyone: "what about a separate queue one for just small squads of 4 and randoms and then another queue where 2 or more squads can queue up and be on the same team. kinda like corp battles but the corp doesnt get money and that queue is matched with other squads for instance."

Argo Filch of Betamax was even more specific: "If the matchmaking system is even a bit worth it's name there will be not that much pubstomping going on in pub matches. If a corp or even just random dudes organizing in chat channels sign up as a group of 8 or 16 or whatever then i'd bloody well expect that matchmaking system to match them against people other groups that size and sprinkle perhaps only a few others in." Here's what we propose:

Standard Queue - This one is simple. Players interested in quick solo games would use this option. This queue would only consist of single players and no one grouped up with other players could use this option to locate matches. This queue would also better balance the teams using War Points or other useful criteria. Most importantly this would provide an avenue for newer players without being matched against organized groups of elite players.

Group Queue - The general understanding here is that groups would play against groups of similar sizes as much as possible. That said, players that go into this queue should be prepared for groups as small as 2 players to as large as 24. While we hope matchmaking will be smart enough to put small [2-4 players] medium [8-16 players] and large [20+ players] groups in games together, or even merge groups [a large group with two small groups for instance] there would obviously be no guarantee based on trying to avoid long wait times.

Some of the organized, larger corps are voicing their frustrations with not being able to play together. Here are some of the quotes we've seen from beta testers regarding the lack of larger scale grouping and a queue that matches up groups of similar sizes:

"Nobody corpbattles though. CCP should just create a mercenary Q in the same vain as COD for the people that don't have others to play with."

"The game is already a usual redline fest or boring matches between randoms..."

"There are numerous ways to do this and there are many threads for this. Randoms should have their own little Shire. Mordor is for the hardcore."

"I'm tired of playing against my corpmates. it's ridiculous that we are given absolutely no control over who we play alongside, unless we forgo advancing our characters (no SP in corp battles) or play a different game."

"I agree there is no reason to not allow bigger groups because you are worried about "clans pwning randoms" this is happening anyway." 

" Pub matches are normally pretty one sided anyways. The only time I normally get a good fight is when our squad gets paired against another corp squad. And hell the outcome is normally decided on what team has the better blue dots (more corp players)"

"All kidding aside,I think that if the next build(whenever that may be) comes out,there absolutely has to be bigger squads,even if it means just two squads of eight,to fill the 16 player side."

"Personally, I'd rather lose a match because of bad strategy than because of no strategy at all--which is what happens in pub matches with randoms."

"if the devs want this game to actually go someplace, at somepoint, they have to open the cages and let the monsters out. that's just the long and short of it."

"I came to this game as a team based shooter. I will not be wasting my time on playing a team based game with only 4 people."

As always, we'll continue to attempt to help push and publish ideas that help establish and grow the Dust 514 community as much as we can. Have any ideas that need sharing? Be sure to contact us at


  1. they dont do this already?

  2. implement this asap CCP!! redlining is awful!!!

  3. if corps want to play together in big groups, they can go and play corpmatches.

  4. agree with this +1

  5. yeppers. its time to unlock larger groups

  6. Faction Warfare will take the place of trying to change the public match queues.

    FW should take the organized corps to Lowsec space fighting over contracts between the Caldari/Gallente and Amarr/Minmatar.

    This should alleviate most peoples problems getting stomped in the Hisec matches that are in the Dust beta now.

    Newbs and small corps will stay in hisec while the Proto gear types will be in lowsec.

    1. FW better give SP and ISK then, because allot of corps wont play it if theyre not earning sp and isk

  7. lol pubstacking randoms...brilliant idea!

    How about corp battles ROFL? You know...actually playing an organized group, and not a bunch of scrub randoms.

    DUST 514 = DODGE 514

    The amount of corps out there dodging other corps is pathetic.

  8. i find the utter knowledge of this so-called player base astonishing. If you go by what is being said; you'd think pubstomping never occurs in ANY game; yet it does. I dont see why people cry and complain so much about corps stomping randoms. Most games it is 4 grouped corps people and 12 randoms, and maybe a team of the same, or worst case 16 random.

    However, i dont see how you can say that is game breaking. Look at games like COD; where yo can group a full team against randoms; or even 1/2 a team. Here we have 25% of a team can be grouped as one corp.

    Then there is MAG; where we had groups of up to 16 grouped into a single game against randoms yet people never cried as much as they do now.

    Also, you NEED pubstomping; as this is a good feature; as it lets random see corps play and figure out who or where they might end up. This also allows corps to view random people for consideration. As if i was a corp leader, i would never accept any player simply based on stats they give; but want to watch how they actually play.

    As it is, games are fine; most of the time redline fests occur b/c one team is better then the other(and that can be with total randoms). Hell i've seen randoms defeat a grouped squad b/c of their randoms. People only think about the group of 4, yet forget there are 12 others that are running around like chickens with their head cut off too.

    Most of the time now; if more then 1 group of a corp are together it is by total chance (except STD, as they do Q sync to try and get on the same team). Yes there are times it occurs; and times when 2-3 grouped corps end up on same team; but it can go the other way as well.

    So yeah, have people stop QQ'ing b/c of random matchmaking which occurs in ever game and can cause worse odds then in Dust

  9. ^ and MAG was such a great success huh?

    As it is randoms get redlined by a group of 4, so having a 16 vs randoms is exciting to people? Wow...if this is the mentality of people playing this game, then this MAG 2.0 is destined to fail.

    good luck with that.

    1. u dont make sense. redlining is redlinig. how can it get worse? with 2 qs everyone can play how they want. go into the solo q if ur so scared of groups.

    2. what doesn't make sense is corps/clans calling themselves "competitive" then turn around and all they want to do is stack against randoms and not do any battles against other corps.

      Funny how that works. Well eitherway, carry on gentlemen.

    3. so, what happens then when people playing solo get redlined in their solo Q; what are they gana QQ about now? You think they will be ok with it; well, THEY WONT. So whats the point of having separate queues then, except making it harder on CCP for coding and match making; as you'll need to double up game types (ie: group skirmish & solo skirmish)

      Also, redlining only occurs in skirmish; as you cant redline in ambush games

  10. if you want to play as a Corp Matches... Q Syncing to play randoms are for scrub corps/teams tbhqh.

    1. no one does corp matches idiot!! get it through ur thick skull. scrubs fight for isk tbqh. real corps fight for sov.

  11. Pubstacking is the only way to create rivalries and build a competitive player base for a game of DUST's scale. If DUST doesn't have a competitive player base then the game will fall flat on its face.

  12. This game is such a fail, ccp is building a pc gam
    e for console lol. Eve is 1000 time better

  13. I dont know if ou guys remeber when there was diffrent battles types like only miltia gear....advanced gear.... and proto gear matches...
    they need too bring back limited gear matches level the playing field

  14. Or maybe, just maybe - group the fuck up. And hell, this is still closed beta. Corp management, queuing with others together, etc will be there by public beta. Oh the bitchfest that is the EVE universe lol.

    1. EVE players aren't nearly this bitchy.. What we have here is a bunch of console FPS pewpewers getting really mad and throwing feces at each other because some shit doesn't work quite-right in a closed beta