Monday, September 24, 2012

"DUST is just an Add-on" (an opinion from GoonSwarm)

By: Nameless514

You would say that “you have to learn to walk before you learn to fly”, but with the DUST 514//EVE Universe it is flipped to “learn to fly before you learn to walk.” EVE online open to PC gamers back in late 2003 and introduced them to a Sandbox set in space with starship’s and pod's filled with immortal clones. This one-shared universe riddled with Crime, Corruption, Grieving, Scamming, Politics, Alliances, Corporation that number in the thousand and all based around an economy fueled by Conflict. 10 years later one Alliance has brought itself to stand above them all and they are known as Goon.

In 2009 CCP announced that they were taking this galaxy riddle with spaceship politics and bring them to the ground of the planets they have been flying around for years. They are bringing in DUST 514 and merging it with the already existing EVE Universe. Here in 2012 this ambitious project of linking not only two separate genres, but also two very separate gaming platforms.

In May 2012 during some of the earlier builds to the Beta test in this venture, the two parties joined together on a Podcast and the union was not meet by a brotherly embrace.  Within the Cast a statement was made by one CourtHouse (CFC Manager and Diplo of GoonSwarm FED. Of EVE Online) that a community that is made up of FPS players would lack the intelligence to organize past the number required to fight in a random match.

This simple statement hit a cord and clashed with the hearts of Console gamers who partake, organize and create clan’s in FPS’s that craves more then some lone wolf action. They crave Teamwork, competition and even gaming politicking. It sparked the argument that Players of FPS’s don’t lack the ability or inelegance to organizes past average Clan numbers, but that we have never been given the opportunity too.

A post was made shedding light of this challenge within a Closed Beta forum with Rage. It for a period united the Community as a whole against a common foe and help spark a voice for the community. ZionShad the one responsible for the original post spoke about the event in a recent interview when the topic was brought up.

"The Burn New Eden" movement was sparked out of the same statement that help form the making of ZionTCD. Now this created a "Bandwagon" effect and a "Huge" number of people hoped on the wagon for a number of different reasons. For some it is to challenge the "Big Dog" on the EVE block (Goon swarm), for other's they see a hopeful opportunity to seek revenge against an Alliance that is known for Scamming, Bulling, Exploiting and everything else that has earned them the "Bad Guy" title they now hold. 

For me it was an unintentional challenge and I excepted it. So I set out to show the people who made these accusations about us (The FPS Community) lacking the capability to organizing past the stereo typical Clan number of 30 because we are in a matter of speaking "Dumb". The easiest way to create a Group or Groups is give them a common enemy and in doing so, (no one may see it this way) it brought out and even help form a number of external Corps and let shine the community that until then was quiet and hidden. People started to take their organization serious, that started to provide a voice to the forums and even started to get in to EVE in order to prepare for the coming integration. Most of these corps are anywhere from 50-500 members strong and there are around 40+ of them. 

This also aided in showing CCP that our community would not be content with being forced in to NPC corp or happy with an idea such as "simple Corps". We are large, well organized and we aim to wreck Kitten's... Mission accomplished guys.

Going back to the "Burn New Eden" I had to step up again to calm the flames so that we could once again get back to the task at hand and that is to help CCP make Our FPS. The fire is not dead, it is just dormant."

The very next day, streaming live on the Podside podcast #35 the participants there of were Host FarFrmPukin, The HiveMind (leader of the Entropy Virus Alliance of DUST514) and CourtHouse of Goonswarm. This is with the exception of a few other party’s partaking in the cast as well. Around the 1hour and 47 minuet mark the topic of CSM was brought up of EVE and HiveMind queried about the groups thoughts on DUST 514 receiving a CSM style council of it’s own. Here are some of the opinion of CourtHouse on DUST 514 Players and the game.

In the recording the HiveMind Speaks first followed by Pukin and then Courthouse

Information between the red lines can be found in the recording as well.

Courthouse: I don’t think that the people on DUST understand… You’ll have the Capsuleers that play DUST that kind of get it, but MMO’s and political games…don’t happen on consul.

Consul doesn’t require organizing in that way. You have match-making services... You don’t need to organize… Maybe you’ll have clan’s, but clan’s are small and competitive and they’re sized proximately about what your map supports… what 16 people, 20 people… and even then who’s the captain of your clan? Well it’s probably the guy who’s best at it and you can because your playing one game mechanic, FPS… it’s easy to say who the best player is.
Nameless Note:This is a stereo typical point of view of FPS clans from over 6-10 years ago and is based off this persons out dated information. As FPS's have grown and with the player market becoming more Competitive and craving more organized game play, the Number caps have risen dramatically. Even in some FPS’s where maps only hold up to 12 v 12, the Clan support allows teams to form up in the hundreds. MAG is one of the more profound FPS’s that allowed 124 v 124 and clans holding up in the hundreds. Everything before dust has been training

…So it doesn’t require a whole lot of effort to develop your own network... You just call up another clan and arrange a match or just use a match making service to run around and rofl stomp people. Or it may with this game (DUST 514) you’ll decide “were going to attack this planet for whatever reason…” but it’s not a platform or game type…that has been faced with a need to organize...
Nameless Note: The statement of FPS Players never Needing to organize on a large level in prier FPS games may be true, but the case with DUST 514 is false in that Players will have to form large army’s sometimes in the thousands to takeover and defend planets. It’s not that we lack the capability, it’s that we’ve never been given the chance tell now

"...we needed a system that allows players to form and join an organization in the same way players join Corporations in EVE Online. This is similar to guilds or clans that are available in other MMO games and shooters. However, in DUST 514, we will take this concept a bit further and allow players from both EVE Online and DUST 514 to join the same Corporations."

…So the guys of EVE take a like to it and decide to be the DUST advocate because they play both games, but is DUST going to get 9 representatives and go to CCP every year?...NO. Because DUST is a add on to EVE. DUST is not it’s own game, it’s not a e-sport, it’s not Halo 3 or a Battlefield or one of those games. It’s not a one on one game that requires a high amount of thought…like “Starcraft 2”. It’s not a Team base game that has wild variation like “League of Legends”… and that games got millions of people who tune in to watch it. DUST isn’t going to have that…

Nameless Note: "CCP and Sony joined forces to showcase DUST 514™ at the Major League Gaming (MLG) Summer Championship in Raleigh, North Carolina, where competitive gamers from around the world battled for cash prizes in intense e-sports showdowns."
DUST 514 at MLG

You are not going to have a CSM for DUST because it doesn’t make any since because all you have to worry about is who’s gun is doing the most damage…”

Nameless Note: "You have people acting as middle-men, warehouse operators, sellers of goods and all of this stuff that you see happening in the real world, as it’s an economy that abides by the same kind of rules that real-world companies do. We’re planning on having the same on the Dust side as the EVE side."
DUST 514 Vs. EVE Online

Once Courthouse finishes his thought, The HiveMind says softly spoken “I had an interjection a bit ago, but I lost it.”

The conversation carried on for a few more minuets with the others involved. Then the HiveMind spoke again.

HiveMind “ …I’ve already seen what effect with just DUST being out there… There’s about 4 or 5 clans that come on the web site ( and the leader their of comes and says “There’s something bigger going on here then I realized (with DUST)” then he finds someone in his organization to be the DUST 514 figure head… I think your underesta…”

CourtHouse cuts off HiveMind in med sentence.

CourtHouse: “Yea? So what…

But there’s not a mechanic involved that transcends the other parts of EVE…It’s just DUST(intent is just another FPS)… and as much that would be politics there are going to be “Clans” to decide whether they are going to shoot at each other or not.

So what if someone wants to posture?

Nameless Note: "Starting with our next major update, DUST 514 players will be entering a universe populated with established social groups as well as ongoing politics associated with these groups and are welcome to become part of that social dynamic. This means that overnight, a DUST 514 player can go from being in an NPC newbie corporation to joining a 7,000-player strong empire that owns a sizeable chunk of the known space in the EVE Online universe."
Player Corps in DUST 514 DEV Blog

Pukin speaks for a moment on enforcing Courthouses point’s.Then Courthouse starts again.

“You guys are going to shoot each other, someone is going to win and someone in eve will get a planet.”

HiveMind: “Exactly.”

The HiveMind goes on to explain more and trys to a degree to defend DUST, but not that effectively.

Courthouse: “…Dust is a First Person Shooter. That is the main perspective that players are going to have is a FPS. So the expectation is going to be “I’m going to get in the game and within a few minuets I want to shoot people. EVE online is a quote/unquote it’s a misnomer, it’s also a galactic sim game. There production, extractions, Politics, markets, profiteering, PvP. There’s all these aspects to it that…But the point is that it serves as a model of a persistent world and part of that persistent world is the idea of persistent battle…

The core mechanic is not that you’re going to necessarily going to have people not running around shooting people… But you don’t the expectation or vibe of a world or worlds or a galaxy to do this on. It’s still fundamentally a First Person Shooter game. So if your not getting in and shooting someone in the first couple of minuets, nobody’s going to be interested in it.

So you can’t apply the same rules or the same politics or the same notion that DUST is going to be this thing of EVE. That’s not what it is… DUST is a “add on” to EVE…”

Nameless Note: "For many FPS players, it’s enough to play the same maps in the same way. Like a sports event, the rules and where the game is played remain the same; the only difference each time being the result. But that’s something many FPS games already do very well. What we're bringing is not only providing fun FPS matches, we're empowering players to define and influence their world. We're giving them the tools to alter the play experience in their favor; increasing versatility, re-playability, and reinforcing the concept that actions in DUST 514 have consequences.

This degree of socialization becomes even more significant when you factor in how vital corps are to both EVE Online and DUST 514. That’s because EVE and DUST share the same player-run corporations. That is to say, EVE Online players can join DUST 514 corps. Likewise, DUST 514 players can join EVE Online corporations.These social institutions are crucial to the long-term prospects of DUST 514"

There was an area of the cast where it's brought up where players should have the ability to build structures on the planet and they should be fought over

Nameless Note: "One you control property it will give your corporation benefits,” Smith comtinued, “If you control a particular installation on a planet – maybe a mining outpost – it will give you a particular type of resource, and when anyone fights over that territory in the future, its your infrastructure that’s at risk. So you will see that corporation sending Dust mercs down on the ground to defend it.

One of the things you need in Dust are resource plants that give your corporation valuable produce, but you also need day to day things like power plants, waste processing, communication towers and this kind of stuff,” Smith added."
DUST 514 Vs. EVE Online

The Podcast continues for around another hour or so.

Aside from this cast, notes have been shared with me of a member of GoonSwarm trying his best to build and operate a Goon variant in DUST 514 and is being meet with little to no support from his EVE counterpart or Directors there of. Here’s what he has said about his efforts and the over all look of Goon’s on DUST itself during his up and coming interview on

Post 1
Hey, It's Cerebral Wolf from the Dust forums.

I'm not a Goonwaffe director by any means and we're going though a bit of an internal thing at the moment with Vile Rat getting killed, he was friends with a hell of a lot of the directorate and as such they've been pretty quiet the last few days while they mourn the loss of their good friend.

Post 2
…at the moment it's looking like Goonwaffe is not going to have a formal Dust presence anyway and goons in Dust are going to be a seperate entity but its all a little up in the air at the moment and we're trying to work things out, as it currently stands i'll be a Goonwaffe EVE player but i'll be running the Goonfeet Dust corp.

Post 3
Well, after a heated discussion with Goonwaffe directorate, it looks like Goonwaffe proper will not be having a dust presence. What it looks like is that i will be running a new goon corp, built around goons who don't play EVE but play FPS games, obviously they maybe some cross over.

Post 4
…we see Dust as much more of an experiment at this stage, hence the dust corp being kept distant from Goonwaffe actual, it's going to allow me to recruit people in that normally wouldn't make the cut in Goonwaffe too which will have both good and bad implications later down the line but more good than anything from an intelligence point of view.

A question was brought up about the Entropy Virus and Cerebral Wolf opinion about the DUST (and Former MAG) Alliance was this:

"I don't actually see EV lasting for long anyway, STB are already coming to me for advice on how to improve their appearance in the community and how to better deal with propaganda etc and that's not something you go to an outside alliance for unless you're either struggling or trying to size them up and it's too early that."

***From the notes of

CCP is giving us (the DUST Mercenaries) the tools to influence and impact an already excising in EVE Online. We will partake in the power struggles, the Political rings and the economics of the continuing one shard Universe. The limitation is only held in the player and not the game mechanics. With the ability to create an EVE style Corporation within DUST 514 and integrate Capsuleers while forming player made Alliances, CCP is not only giving you the ability to takeover land and planets, you have the opportunity to takeover a galaxy.

And with the most powerful Alliance within all of New Eden looking at DUST 514 as just and experiment, it would appear that a war is fast in coming.
"So, to recap, the following features are just a part of what’s in store for this major update to DUST 514:
  • You can join any Corporation in EVE Online or DUST 514
  • There will be a dedicated Corporation chat channel
  • You can be a CEO or director of any Corporation in EVE Online or DUST 514
  • You can create a corporation, design its logo, assign roles, accept and take part in corporation battles (there will be another dev blog about this topic)
  • You can accept members from both EVE Online and DUST 514
  • You can now create social bonds (or vendettas) that last
  • You will see EVE Online players’ character names and portraits and vice versa
  • Strategize and fight together in real-time
And this is just the beginning. In time, we hope to see the already vast canvas of the human drama within EVE Online expand and include those of you, that merry band of mercenaries, from DUST 514."

Player Corps in DUST 514 DEV Blog

Podside can be found on iTunes and streams live on Tuse and Sat Nights at 11pm CT (0300 Game) at Click the Podside Player

If you would like to take part in being a voice for DUST 514 and help in it's CSM efforts, check out

On Podside (a DUST//EVE related Podcast) episode #35 on iTunes the


  1. lots of good info on this one

    1. Hell Yea, This bitch says F-U Goons!

    2. Somebody got suicide ganked.

  2. YAWN.
    nameless = zionshad
    dr. spankit = bruce harmon and hivemind

    1. Bruce is Bruce. Why does everyone try and claim he is one of the people who post here?
      First they said ROFl controlled this blog and that Bruce was Kushmir, now its Hivemind, next he is going to be Obama or something. lol

    2. ikr. bruce harmon will be batman next or somethin

    3. Bruce= Jimmy Hoffa

    4. Bruce = Clint Eastwood.

    5. bruce = chuck norris

    6. unknownsoldier= Jenza and Contraband Joes fan fest Love child

    7. Bruce = SILENTSAM69

  3. I would suggest making your blog easier to read. The background is too bright for the white text. Just make all your content in a division with a dark grey and slightly transparent background color so your background is still visible. Either way great content

    1. Wow when I posted this it was all just your background.. Ooops

  4. Really? The Hivemind is trying to convince Eve players that Dust will have an impact? His allaince is awful and knows absolutley nothing. Wonder why Eve players think we are all "stupid kids".......... All you "news" sites need to get people who know what they are talking about and have a clue. You are doing nothing but making the whole FPS community look bad by interviewing and getting opinions from 14 year olds who know jack shit about politics.

    1. Poor kid was out of his league and catered to the Goon douche way too much imho.

    2. Chewed up and spit out. WHO JOINS EV ANYWAYS?

  5. its all about the metah game gaiz!

  6. Courthouse knows nothing about console clans. All clans are 20-30 people? we dont organize for anything , like clan matches? You think there are any devs out there that have made a game that supports large clans fully without leaving out little things that fuck groups over? Your clueless bro.

    1. Do you have any idea what kind of organization it takes to have secure comms? Logistics support (and no, I'm not talking healing)? Trying to keep a market stable? Getting 400+ people formed up and fighting? Having legitimate diplomats to handle delicate situations?

      No. You don't.

  7. Plus i remember hearing or reading some where the we Dust mercs will be able to own planets and keep them away from eve players.

  8. When are we going to hear virgindestroyer7 and what she has to say? You say soon but when?

    1. Seriously stop. Your not funny. Stop being a stalking ass lil fagboy. Move out of moms basement, get a job, buy some porn, get a hooker, whatever it is you need to do.

    2. If we're asking for her, what are you going to do about it? Call us names? This is mature company she's keeping.

    3. she should do a podcast

    4. Seriously, kid....enough already

      Every single blog you have to post something about her. Let it go. You're the main reason she hasn't been more available. Take a hint.

    5. LMFAO here comes ROFL to protect their precious girl. Stop encompassing her.

    6. You know she is an actual person, right?. She's an [ONS] leader and a ROFL officer, not "our" precious girl. Try treating her as such instead of tits with a controller.

      People like you are why most female gamers don't like using microphones.

    7. It seems I have struck a nerve with you. You tell me that you're sticking up for her this much without reason why she isn't coming forward herself? This sounds like ROFL is holding her back to me. For what reasons?

    8. you're an idiot. what possible reasons would anyone have to "hide" her?

    9. Is there anyone else who just reads this blog for the VD drama? LMAO

    10. yeah she shoulds do a podside

  9. Talk about a biased article... The point stands that Dust will need less organizing than EVE. Maps only hold so many players, and FPS clans go in battle with their best, so whats in it for the 'others' that are not so good to go into a match that matters? Sizes will be smaller and the complexity of the game will be lesser than the one Present at EVE.
    Major involvement and organization will require people to setup external tools than the game itself will offer, and that will exclude the pure console players from more organized / meta game.

    1. Do you think corps will only be in one battle at one planet a time?

    2. Apparently he does... the dismissal of the "DUST FACTOR" is amazing. Denial is rampant in the Eve Community apparently. That will only serve to strengthen the Dust Merc position. By the time they realize what has happened, there will be a huge white elephant in the room.

    3. This guy is fucking stupid. Muti Battles in Multi Districts = 500-1000 combatants on just one side

  10. STB will be leaving EV for sure.

    1. Or EV will leave STB. People are tired of their brazen attitudes.

    2. STB is the EV! dont kid urselves

    3. By that you mean STB is the only corp with over 10 members that is part of EV, correct?

    4. From this moment on we will only refer to STB as Herpes.

  11. the point is that EVE alliances will need us to take planets they can nat take them on there own..... so doesnt matter.

  12. so i say just boycot their contracts if they think so less of us.

  13. If DUST mercs can affect reinforcement timers like was mentioned before then they will make important impacts in EVE.

  14. I just listened to this podcast, here is my take. If he is really a Goon, this is Disinfo from him. I am not convinced that he believes half of what he is saying. Honestly, they are doing a good job of keeping a low profile, while giving some nuggets of info on their efforts. If any of you are actually buying that the goons won't be a factor on Dust, you are an idiot.

  15. me thinks you are on to something.

  16. Tonight Podside streams again live and we will have CCP's David Reid and CMDR WANG on. I plan to bring up a few of the points talked about and have CCP set it strait on the air

    Info here

    or goto

    1. links don't work, just copy and paste

    2. what time is the show?

    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  17. interesting read but getting hive mind to defend dust was a mistake as he proved. and if the eve guys think so little of us wait till they need to hire us to defend their planets while the dust guys are boycotting their contracts and taking all the planets.

    and for all the fanboy creepers VD has already said that you can just msg her on psn to use her words "I'm really approachable." so you guys might just talk to her instead of giggling about i in the locker room.

  18. oh and nameless needs to work on his spelling and grammar

  19. some of you guys need a hug. grammar nazis are the worst. its obvious english is a second language for this guy. how many of u jerks could write in the language you know the second amount of words in?

  20. I stand by the piece still. Grammar aside everything on this piece is just presented facts. Nothing by my doing is fabricated and I provided every source including Courthouse own words in the recording. Some times the truth hurts, but don't light a fire and cry if you get a little burn.

  21. Replies
    1. This guy Gotz it! Quoted For Truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. Ok listen up. Here is why im convinced that Nameless 514 is Zion Shad.
    Zion said that Nameless is his cousin. That they where raised in the same house. They sound very much alike. Nameless was on podside awhile back as the "Dust expert" He hasnt been on since and Zion has been on alot. Nameless joined Zion TCD forums but has never posted or even responded on any threads. If they are cousins then how come ive never seen him in the Zion TCD chat in dust? He doesnt squad up with his family? I mean its no big deal but dude just be one person. I do agree that courthouse is a douche. We dont care much what he thinks of us dusties anyway. But i did enjoy his leadership talks.

    1. HAHAHAHA, Cousins? Your so lame. How you make that Sh!5 up.

  23. Oh and Nameless misspells things just like Zion Shad does. I'm on to you shadow.

  24. "maNy Are My Eyes, Lips, EarS and shadowS. We ARe not a hIveMind but Many wIll igNite and ENTer our cause."

    Your to narrow minded

  25. God this game is going to flop..

  26. I find the view of Courthouse regarding the overall impact Dust will have on the greater New Eden to be very interesting. He obviously does not share in the vision that CCP has tried to project for prospective players. At the same time I think he underestimates the capabilities of FPS communities as a whole. Personally, I welcome his naivete and am confident it is shared by many of his contemporaries within the greater EVE Online community. We will be sure to use that to our advantage in our long term strategy of the meta game. I do agree with him on one point though. That it will take time for Dusters to assert their influence, probably years. That's okay, I got nothing but time. We'll get our seat at the table. That day will come. Mark my words.

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